Can you help?

Diaries and letters belonging to the Smiths, Goslings and their relatives reside in places as diverse as Duke University and the Hampshire Record Office. I have also tracked down several private collectors. Have you come across these people? Do you own a diary or a letter (or letterbook) or a portrait which once belonged to the family. If so, I want to hear from you!

♦ Is an Archive or Estate in your neighborhood? see especially The Vyne and Berkshire Record Office blog posts. And I never turn down visitors to the Hampshire Record Office (Winchester). In the States: anyone near UCLA?

♦ One past request concerned Dublin, Ireland — Many Thanks to Kildare for the images! In the States: Thanks, Pat for work at Stanford.

please also see the following pages on this site:

Where are these items?
Once missing, now found
Missing Portraits

There are many names within the families, the major ones being:

  • Gosling
  • Cunliffe
  • Smith
  • Burgess / Burges / Smith-Burges(s)
  • Gilbert
  • Shaw Lefevre / Lefevre
  • Compton / Northampton
  • Chute / Lobb Chute / Wiggett Chute
  • Austen / Austen Leigh
  • Christie
  • Currie
  • Seymour / Culme-Seymour
  • Wilder
  • Sullivan
  • Dickens / Dickins
  • Rivington
  • Dalton
  • Midwinter

Are you familiar with former residences associated with them:

  • Suttons (Romford, Essex), Hassobury (Farnham, Essex); also Albyns, Clayberry, Dagnams, Hill Hall, Kelvedon, Skreens, etc. (all: Essex)
  • Tring Park (Herts.)
  • Mapledurham House, Speen, or Newbury (Oxon.)
  • Kinwarton (Warks.)
  • Castle Ashby; Preston Deanery (Northants.)
  • Erle Stoke Park (Wilts.)
  • The Vyne (near Basingstoke); Stanlake (near Twyford); Blendworth; Brooklands (all: Hants.)
  • Purley Hall (Berks.)
  • Coolhurst (West Sussex)
  • Roehampton Grove; Botleys (near Chertsey); Cobham Place (all: Surrey)
  • the London borough (now Newham and future site of the Olympics…) once known as Stratford
  • the London townhouses: No. 5 & No. 6 Portland Place; No. 144 Piccadilly (home of the (Sir) Drummond Smiths); No. 145 Piccadilly (home of the Smith-Burgeses [sometimes spelled Smith-Burgess]; later purchased by Lord Northampton); the Le Marchant residence at 84 (or No. 7) Harley Street; the residence of the Curries, (No. 12?) Cavendish Square; the Christies lived in 1833 somewhere on Park Crescent.
  • two Ramsgate ‘vacation’ residences are mentioned in letters: No. 7 Albion Place (the Christies; 1840) and No. 3 Nelson’s Crescent (Lady Smith; 1841)

Or familiar with some of the Essex families the Smiths of Suttons had as neighbors

  • Abdy
  • Beadon
  • Bonham
  • Bosanquet
  • Bramston
  • Cure
  • Deedes
  • Edridge
  • Linzee
  • Lockwood
  • Mildmay
  • (Comyns) Parker
  • Round
  • Smijth
  • Tower

Or those whom they employed:

  • the two Miss Ashleys (one or both were governesses to the Smiths, over two generations; one identified as Sarah Ashley, the other as yet has no first name)
  • Miss Helen McDougall or Miss Pond or Miss Ramsay (Smith governesses prior to Miss Ashley)
  • Miss Manly or Miss Beekvelt, friends to the unfortunate Miss Ramsay (who died in 1819)
  • Mrs Sandoz (Mary’s governess) and her daughter
  • Mary Adams; Barlow; Sarah Batch; Bowen; Conybeare (spelling?), the new Butler in 1832; Davis; Martha Finch; Foster; Godfrey; Hinds, possibly the departing Butler in 1832; Ketcham (a maid); Marshall (who may be Catherine ‘Kitty’ Marshall); Reeves, new Butler in 1840; Betsey Thomas = all predominately at Suttons
  • Mr Sendall (tutor to Charles Cunliffe Smith); Mr Wyatt (another tutor, 1839)

If you’re researching any of the family, friends, or employees — I’d love to hear from you.

As I slowly work through more diaries, earlier diaries — of Emma, of her mother Augusta, of her aunt Eliza Chute, I will be adding to this list of people and places, for there are subtle differences between Emma’s girlhood diaries and Mary’s lady-of-the-manor diaries (from which most of this information was initially extracted).

* * *

Of course, there are items that I know exist – I just don’t know where they are. Paintings & miniatures are going to be the hardest to track down (do see my “want list” on bottom of the portraits page). But there are also several books, for instance:

  • William Compton (Lord Northampton), History of the Comptons of Compton Wynyates (1940).
  • Peter Weston, From Roehampton Great House to Grove House to Froebel College. NOVEMBER 2016 update: have a copy, thanks to Gilly @ Roehampton U.
  • Malcolm Sutherland, Sola bona quae honesta: The Colebrooke Family, 1650-1950.
  • (Eliza and Drummond Smith), Scenes from Life at Suttons, 1825-1827 (Spottiswoode, 1925).  This is described in May Lamberton Becker’s book ‘Presenting Miss Jane Austen’ (pp. 203-4) as: Written by Eliza and Drummond Smith and first published one hundred years later for the descendants of that family as “a clever and graphic picture of life in a country house” of that period. These lively scenes, in rhymed verse, use the actual words spoken on these occasions, in the manner–characteristic of large and happy families–of seldom getting to the end of a sentence uninterrupted. Written without thought of publication, it carries on the tradition in families like those of the Austens, of providing their own home entertainment before wireless or motor cars. The portraits are sketches from life by Augusta Smith. Emma Smith (1801-1876) married Rev. James Austen–subsequently Austen-Leigh. JUNE 2011 update: FOUND!

Anyone who can let me borrow a copy, make a xerox copy for me, or otherwise help, please contact me.

* * *

Funding opportunities are exceptionally difficult to track down, never mind secure. For the research trip to England which took place May-July 2007, I applied for a National Endowment for the Humanities Summer Stipend, and also JASNA’s International Visitor Program (IVP); both went unfunded. If anyone knows of programs designed (or willing) to help fund research done by independent scholars, I would be grateful.

72 Comments

  1. Mike Ellingham said,

    I have copy of photo of old Hassobury (circa 1865) before it was rebuilt in its current form. Also copy of photo of Robert Gosling & family at Botleys Park around the same time. Happy to share but not sure of copyright position. I know a fair bit about the Gosling family and have picked up the Austen link

  2. Janeite Kelly said,

    Hi, Mike. Terrific to hear from you. I would appreciate any help, and must say that I am not looking to publish photographs, unless as illustration to a book (far, far down the road). In that case, of course, I would contact you for permission.

    I have seen the photo that is held at the Essex Record Office, and presume this a later, post reconstructed Hassobury; Robert and family I have never yet seen! Is Georgina in the photo as well? She comes across in Mary’s diaries as such a sweet and helpful woman.

    If the photos are digital scans and you can email them, please use the email jasna-vt [at] hotmail [dot] com. If they are photographs that you are willing to copy and mail to me, I will get you my mailing address.

    You say you know ‘a fair bit about the Gosling family’ – more than just dates, marriages, deaths and children? I love good stories! I am especially interested in news of Thomas and Charlotte; these two are the hardest of William’s children to track down.

  3. Dinah Bott said,

    What a nice site! At the Priaulx Library we have some information about Gaspard Le Marchant Tupper, who is scion of an important miltary family from here in Guernsey. Now we have something about his marriage thanks to you! To read about the Le Marchants – http://www.priaulxlibrary.co.uk/priaulx-library-services-case-study.asp.

    Regards!

  4. Janeite Kelly said,

    Just a quick message to say, ‘Wow! Thanks!!’ This is an informative article, and exceptionally useful for my research. (How did I overlook this when it’s cited on the website that has Gaspard Le Marchant Tupper’s photo?? I know I visited the Priaulx Library site at that time…)

    The Le Marchants, as a family, cross-cross with the Smiths in a couple generations. (Sir) Denis Le Marchant married Eliza Smith, Emma’s sister; and Gaspard Le Marchant Tupper married Mary’s elder daughter ‘Mimi’ (Mary Charlotte Smith) – but Helen Le Marchant, Denis’ sister, also married into a branch of the Smith family when she married the son of Charles Shaw.

    I am in the midst of working on a ‘joint biography’ of Eliza’s sister and brother-in-law, Fanny and Rev. Richard Seymour (working title: The Seymours of Kinwarton; written with Alan Godfrey). The connection to the Shaw Lefevres I used as illustration there is as follows:

    “Siblings Judith, John, and Magdalen Lefevre were, respectively, grandparents of Charles Joshua Smith, Charles Shaw Lefevre, and Arthur Currie.”

    Charles Joshua Smith married Mary Gosling; Arthur Currie married Charlotte Smith (Charles Joshua’s sister). Charles Shaw Lefevre married Emma Laura Whitbread and his brother Henry Francis married Helen Le Marchant. Helen and Denis’ sister, Maria, is listed in Gentleman’s Magazine in 1823: ‘Sept. 1. At Guernsey, Dan. Tupper, esq. to Maria, dau. of late Major-gen. J. Gaspard Le Marchant.’

    I assume these are the parents of Gaspard Le Marchant Tupper (correct me if I’m wrong); and wonder if the Mr Tupper who attends to several Goslings is this man or a relation:

    Mary’s half-sister Charlotte in a December 1829 illness – ‘Charlotte much the same. Mr Keith & Tupper came to see her…’

    Mary’s sister Elizabeth in May 1830 – ‘I went at three o’clock to my Sister Mr Tupper came at 5 o’clock & bled her…’ (Elizabeth was expecting her first child, William Langham Christie, born 31 May 1830).

    And Mary’s eldest brother, William Ellis in December 1833 – ‘…on Monday morning Mr Tupper pronounced it to be Scarletina, but said he was going on well…’ (poor William Ellis died in January 1834).

    I will be in touch once I’ve had a chance to digest the info on your website (how I would love to read the letters between John Gaspard and Katherine!); I may have questions, and you may be interested in some of the books &c I’ve come across. The primary sources you mention are VERY good to know about.

    I have travelled to the UK several times, and once to France; at least twice I tried to get to the Channel Islands — but just never made it. The Le Marchants give me a good excuse to someday finally get to Guernsey!

    Thank you so much, Dinah, for writing!

  5. Eileen Hogan said,

    Hi,

    I work in Rare Books & Special Collections at the University of British Columbia. We’re processing thousands of bookplates at the moment and I came across Denis Le Marchant’s. Probably not very helpful. Just thought I’d let you know.

  6. Janeite Kelly said,

    Hi, Eileen. The amazing thing is that this book from England could find its way not only across the Atlantic but also the entire North American continent! Please let me know the book title and publication date. Denis was a published author, and very active in politics. Family members’ interests were diverse, so it is of great use to find what any of them subscribed to or read or owned. If possible could you scan the book plate and email it to me?

  7. Eliza O'Driscoll said,

    Hi
    Dinah Bott sent me a link for this site, as I am researching Daniel William Tupper and his brother Gaspard Le Marchant Tupper. The family interconnections are amazing – Daniel was married to Elizabeth Christie, daughter of Langham Christie and sister of William Langham Christie. In the next generation Daniel and Gaspard’s nephew Edward Le Marchant (son of their sister Eliza and her husband (and cousin) Robert Le Marchant) married William’s daughter Mary Christie.
    The rate of intermarriage between cousins was astonishing.
    I am working on a book (I hope!) about Daniel and Gaspard based on Daniel’s Crimean War diaries which my husband (a distant relative) has inherited.
    I will share any relevant info I come across.

  8. Janeite Kelly said,

    This is truly wonderous news, Eliza!

    I, too, have been amazed at all the inter-marriages. And worse: all the similar names in the generations…

    You are in a period far later than mine (to marshall all the information I chose the cut-off of 1842, the year Mary Gosling/Lady Smith dies), as I have been concentrating on the period of 1815-35 recently. Should you come across any mentions of the cousins ‘Mimi’ and ‘Lizzy’, yes, do let me know! I will have to pay some special attention to the childhoods of the two, for you.

    I have a special love of diaries and look forward to your book, when the time comes.

    I have come across a Mr Tupper who seems a doctor; do you know much about Daniel Tupper, the father?

    I have a Daniel Tupper marring Maria (or Anna Maria) Le Marchant – Denis’ sister – but is this man the same as the above, for there seems at least THREE generations of Daniel Tuppers — there is a death notice of a ‘Catherine, widow of Daniel Tupper, esq. of Haute Ville’ (aged 74 in 1846).

    I will email you.

    I must apologize for the delay in getting to your message – put it down to the holiday weekend (Memorial Day) and a long week at work. I cannot tell you HOW exciting it is to hear of your set of diaries and your work on them and the family (never mind that your husband is distantly related!). How great is the internet, huh??

  9. Eliza O'Driscoll said,

    The Daniel Tupper who married Anna Maria is the father of my Daniel William and his brother Gaspard. He is known as Daniel Tupper II and his son Daniel William is Daniel III. Catherine was probably the widow of Daniel I, Daniel II’s father.
    The doctor you mention could well be Martin Tupper FRS, my husband’s great great great grandfather. He was born on Guernsey but practised in London. His dates are 1780-1844, which would fit. His son, Martin Farquhar Tupper was a well-known Victorian poet and friend of Gladstone (although his rather rubbish poetry had fallen decidedly out of fashion before his death in 1889).

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Great to have a first name; will have to look for more on MARTIN Tupper; all I had was “Mr Tupper” — not a big help that!! He was visiting the bedside of Elizabeth Christie and also William Ellis Gosling in the period 1829-1830. So, yes: fits!

      • Eliza O'Driscoll said,

        One other little piece of information I gleaned from the family papers is that Martin Tupper had a large practice among the fashionable ladies of the day, so I think he is very likely to be your Mr Tupper.

  10. v manning said,

    I am interested in the history of the hassobury mansion and have an 1881 census of the goslings and a picture of the school as I was once a pupil at Hassobury in the 1960s. It was a lovely house. I dont know if this of interest to you. vicki

  11. Janeite Kelly said,

    Hi, Vicki! Great to hear from you. Amazing to hear about the Hassobury school. Hassobury, in Mary Gosling’s youth, seems a bit of a secondary estate. There are letters of her parents (William and Margaret Elizabeth ‘Eliza’ Gosling) visiting the estate – but, as Eliza once wrote, he was no sportsman and unenthusiastic about shooting!

    I’d love also to hear about your school days; and you must know the area well and many tales to tell.

    Will be in touch!

    k

  12. Craig from Australia said,

    Hi Janeite,
    I have some letters and other documents from Sir Edward Bowyer-Smijth and his wife, also some poetry written by his daughter in 1826. I don’t know if this is helpful to you, but if you want a copy please email me and I will send scans to you.

    • Gillian Bonsall said,

      Hi Craig,
      I wonder if I could trouble you for a copy of the documents you mention from Edward BS. I am descended from his son Sir William and Eliza Fechnie Malcolm through their daughter Adela BS who was my grandmother and married Cyril Charles Stafford Northcote. What branch do you come from?

      • Janeite Kelly said,

        Dear Gillian,

        I will write to Craig and mention your email and comment. Will have to see if I have any mentions of Northcotes in the diaries. There are (as I’ve mentioned to Craig) a few, minute mentions of the Bower-Smijths. You might be interested in seeing those, too.

        k

  13. Gillian Bonsall said,

    Dear Janeite,
    Many thanks. It is always interesting to breathe a bit of life back itno an old ancestor! I have a wealth of information about Hill Hall and some about Horham Hall, collated by my grandmother and my aunt. Let me know if you would like any.

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Dear Gillian, I am always willing to take whatever information people would like to share! Will email you.

      There are so many neighbors (and so many neighborhoods, if we count all the families’ estates over the years). “Breathe a bit of life into” is exactly what, in the end, I better achieve – or readers will be bored indeed. And these people — all of them – led such fascinating lives; they deserve some unburying, don’t you think?

      k

  14. Grace said,

    Albyns was in the Chandler family. There were close links between the Rev Chandler and other Rev.’s … did they all meet at university?

  15. Jim said,

    Hi,

    As a long time researcher of Alexander Davison (1750-1829), I am delighted to have come across this very interesting and informative site. I have also carried out some research into the Gosling family, due to Alexander’s wife having been the former Harriet Gosling, a daughter of Fleet Street, Banker, Robert Gosling.

    Regards and congratulations on such a fine site,

    Jim Saunders

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Jim! It is REALLY great to hear from you! I’ve got a couple items that I wonder if you’ve ever seen, regarding the Alexander Davisons; will be in touch over email about those.

      Mary Gosling (Lady Smith) visits with her Davison cousins somewhat frequently. Unfortunately little is said in the diaries of Aunt or Uncle Davison in the diaries of either Charles or Mary — but I live in HOPE of uncovering more such primary materials.

      Glad you find the site informative; there are so many people populating this tale, and so many avenues to venture down. The exciting part is meeting people like you!

      Cheers!

      k

    • Duncan McLaren said,

      Jim:
      We are looking for books with Alexander Davison (1750-1829) bookplate in them (or loose). Please let us know if you have to know of where we might be able to buy any items like this please. Regards Duncan McLaren

      • Janeite Kelly said,

        Hi, Duncan — good luck in finding these items. Would love to hear more about your interest in Davison.

        k

  16. mrs kings said,

    i was a pupil at hassobury, i was wondering if anyone has any school photos of the pupils from 59 to 62 regards pat kings

  17. Dawn said,

    Hi
    I have read your web pages with interest and intrigue. I am based in England and am researching Smith, White, Macdowal predominantly, but am in search of the history of a person referred to in the family as ‘Aunt Emma’. Her date are slightly earlier than yours (1801 – 1857) but I have, for some time, had a feeling that she could well have been the subject matter for Jane Austen’s book of Emma.

    Do you have a genealogy tree for Emma at all?

    If so, perhaps we might exchange notes?

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Dawn – thanks for the ‘thanks’! Always nice to hear that the blog makes for some interesting reading.

      My Emma was indeed born in 1801 — but she lived until 1876. Edward Austen-Leigh had a half-sister (Anna Austen, aka Mrs Benjamin Lefroy) who had children and a sister, Caroline, who never married. Emma’s only other nieces/nephews were the children of her own siblings.

      Emma’s own “Aunt Emma” — Miss Emma Smith, the youngest sister of her mother Augusta — had even fewer nephews/nieces – only the nine children of Charles and Augusta Smith (Emma’s parents) and the two children of the Marquess and Marchioness of Northampton. She died in the 1850s, but was born in October 1774.

      The only other Emma Smith in the family is the sister of Joshua Smith (father of Maria Compton, Marchioness of Northampton; Eliza Chute; Augusta Smith; Emma Smith): She married Lord Dunsany in 1800; I have no birth/death dates for her, but other siblings were born in the 1730s.

      As you might guess, Jane Austen, as a writer, may have gotten ideas from “life”, but one could never say that she actually used, as the subject of any of her books, any given person.

      If your family members owned any land, do find old copies of Burke’s Landed Gentry – they are a great place to come up with siblings, though daughters do rather get less attention than they should!

      Good luck in your search.

  18. Dawn said,

    Hi Janeite
    thank you so much for your advice. I will have a closer look at Emma, sister of Joshua Smith – but it doesnt look promising. I have now picked up the tree from Berry’s Pedigrees. I think that my Emma is likely to be closer to an earlier Leigh family.

    Incidentally, there is a small dovecote at Kinwarton – and not much else.
    Kinwarton is a short walk up a steep hill from Alcester in Warwickshire. The dovecote is now owned by the National Trust.
    I do not live far from there, so if you need some info I will take a look for you.
    Dawn

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hmmm… I don’t know much about the Leigh family (for blog readers who don’t know: Cassandra, Mrs George Austen [mother to Cassandra and Jane Austen] was born a Leigh), but will have a look tonight in some of my books.

      I have been “through” Kinwarton! Seen the little Dovecot, and the exterior of Richard Seymour’s church and the lovely house the Seymours used to live in (a private home now). Alan Godfrey took a few photos for me (do you know Alan, or Sue Fisher in Alcester?).

      You should never offer *help*! I might just take you up on it some day!!

      k

  19. Ron Newfield said,

    My first cousin 3 times removed is a CHARLES CUNLIFFE Brookes. I had often wondered where the Cunliffe part came from.

    Searching through the internet, I came across your site with references to the Cunliffe family.
    From what I can gather, Margaret Elizabeth Cunliffe married William Gosling.
    One of the daughters was Mary Gosling, who went on to marry Sir Charles Joshua Smith.
    Sir Charles was sister to your Emma Smith.
    Sir Charles and Mary had a son CHARLES CUNLIFFE Smith – Coincidence, I think not, read on.
    Another daughter of Margaret Elizabeth Cunliffe and William Gosling was Margaret Elizabeth Gosling.
    She married Langham Christie in 1829.
    One of Langham Christie’s daughters was Charlotte Christie, born 1837 in Glyndebourne.
    She married John Henry Brookes (my great great great uncle) in 1863.
    Their son was CHARLES CUNLIFFE Brookes.

    Here’s the interesting bit – CHARLES CUNLIFFE Brookes wrote a book about the Brookes family, tracing it back to King Edward the first of England on one side and to King Rhodri Mawr of Wales on the other. The book was called ‘Fontes Rivorum’, or The Spring of The Brookes.
    He also co-wrote, with his mother, Charlotte Brookes nee Christie, the book which you reference on your site, ‘Christie of Glyndebourne’.
    Christie of Glyndebourne and Fontes Rivorum are in fact, sister publications, published in 1919 and 1933 respectively.

    My uncle has a copy of Fontes Rivorum and I have it in JPEG form, which I could email to you if you want.
    Do you know where I could obtain a copy of ‘Christie of Glyndebourne’? It would help to fill in a few gaps in the Christie side of the family.

    Regards,
    Ron

    • Victor Trigg said,

      Dear Ron,

      I was interested to hear that you have a jpeg copy of ‘Fontes Rivorum, or The Spring of The Brookes’, and wonder if you would send me a copy. I am researching the owners and occupiers of my cottage in Whitchurch, Shropshire, which was owned by solicitor William Wycherley Brookes (1783-1847) (your great-great-great-great-great uncle?), then by his son George Brookes (1824-86), then by William Wycherley Brookes’s brother-in-law and work partner John Lee (1797-1868), then by John Lee’s wife Mary Ann (1801-89) and finally by John Lee’s daughter Elizabeth (1829-1923) after which the house moved outside the ownership of your family. Should you be interested I would be happy to return the favour and send you a copy of what I have put together so far. Best wishes

      Victor Trigg

      • Janeite Kelly said,

        Hi, Victor – I’ve emailed Ron, alerting him to your comment.

        How wonderful that you’re researching your home – and especially one situated in Whitchurch, which I ‘ve actually visited (when on a narrowboat tour ten years ago).

        Thanks for visiting the blog, and for posting a comment.

        k

      • Ron Newfield said,

        Victor,

        I do indeed have a scanned copy of Fontes Rivorum. I am fortunate in also having Rev. Charles Cunliffe Brookes’ personal printed book, which has his notes and amendments. Charles Cunliffe Brookes was the author of Fontes Rivorum and son of, who we call ‘The last of the Whitchurch Brookes’ (John Henry Brookes) who was William Wycherley Brookes’ son. John Henry Brookes moved ‘down south’ and married Charlotte Christie of the Glyndebourne Christies.

        I could send you a copy, but even in its compressed form, is over 38 megabytes in length. It is in a folder containing 109 scanned pages (jpegs), which don’t compress very much. If your email client can handle that much data, then fine, let me know your email address.

        Regards,

        Ron

        PS – Have a look here :-
        http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~rnewfie/Family_History/
        for some ‘fun’ background information on our family.

      • Victor Trigg said,

        Thanks Janeite and Ron. I do not think my email will handle 38Mb! I have, however, found a copy of ‘Fontes Rivorum’ in the Shropshire Archives, and plan to visit next week to read it and take notes to save you the bother of messing with Dropbox or some other method of passing big files. If the version of the book in Shrewsbury doesn’t prove to be usable version I will be back in touch. My own account – featuring the Brookes family a great deal and running to over 30,000 words plus illustrations, at 56Mb and growing, suffers the same problem as your jpeg! Best wishes

        Victor

      • Victor Trigg said,

        PS Janeite, anyone passing through Whitchurch on a narrowboat would see my house – Canal Croft (as named in William Wycherley Brookes’ will of 1843), which backs on to the canal just near the New Mills lift bridge.

    • Vic Trigg said,

      The Shropshire Archives’ copy of ‘Fontes Rivorum’ is in good readable condition – very interesting!

      • Janeite Kelly said,

        Hi, Vic – glad you found the text of use! DO let me know if there is anything about Harriet & Belinda Colebrooke. Indeed, we must have been floating by your place, for we left from Whitchurch, and returned to it as well. Not a lot of lift bridges on that route, so I rather do remember the area. Wonder if I took a picture??? k

      • rnewfie said,

        I have just remembered that I have a scanned copy of Fontes Rivorum in text form. There are 72 Microsoft .DOC files, which are all quite small. The book in its entirety in this form is only about 1.5Mb. The advantage of this form is that it is searchable, eg. names and places. Let me know if you want a copy – I could break it up as each file is a copy of 1 or 2 pages, depending on whether there was a picture or text on the facing page.
        How come you have so much information on the Brookes family?

  20. Janeite Kelly said,

    Dear Ron,

    Exceptionally GREAT to hear from “family”!! I know the Brookes name well, although I have necessarily not gone much beyond the children of Mary and Elizabeth, Emma and her siblings.

    As to the name, CUNLIFFE goes back to Sir Ellis Cunliffe, husband of the Lady Cunliffe you see my blog mentioning a couple times; these were the parents of Mary and Margaret Elizabeth (called Eliza) Cunliffe — after their marriages, Mrs Drummond Smith (wife of the brother of Joshua of Erle Stoke Park and therefore Emma’s “great aunt”), and Mrs William Gosling (Mary’s mother).

    Mary had no children; Eliza had five (William Gosling’s two younger children were with his second wife): three sons, two daughters. You see this name turning up in several generations.

    Does anyone in your extended family have stories, diaries, letters about or by these people? Any photographs or other pictures?

    I will email you about the Christie of Glyndebourne book.

    Thank you so much for contacting me, Ron! Greatly appreciated whenever I hear from people related to “my people”! That is one thing that makes this project so exciting.

    Will be in touch,

    Kelly

    • Ron Newfield said,

      Kelly,

      I have searched through a scanned copy of Fontes Rivorum, but can find no trace of any mention of the Gosling family apart from Charlotte Brookes’ (nee Christie) father (Langham Christie) marrying Margaret Gosling.

      I did find a mention in the book that a man name Harbart (not Herbert, apparently) had Glyndebourne Manor built as an extension of Glynde village :-

      “She (Charlotte Brookes) bought Middle Aston in 1896, and certainly she would have been delighted had she known that she could trace a connection on paper, though not an actual descent, from the former holders of it between the years 1202 and 1588. For Elizabeth Dyneley, the heiress of the Brympton-Stokys-Dyneley line, brought this manor to her husband Sir John Baker, c. 1530; their daughter, Mary, married John Tufton of Tufton Place, Sussex; while John Tufton’s sister, Joan, married William Hay of Robertsbridge. The latter’s grandson, Harbert Hay, built Glyndebourne in 1618 which-passing through the Hay and Langham families-descended to that of Christie, being now held by Charlotte Brookes’ great-nephew, John Christie.”

      A bit unrelated to what you are after, but it may give a bit of background to related studies – I tried!

      Any developments on the Christie of Glyndebourne book?

      Regards,

      Ron

  21. Jacky Witt said,

    My greatgrandfather, Charles le Maistre, married Violet Culme- Seymour. After she died in 1974 we cleared out her house and found some old diaries and letters which we saved. I have recently been reading through them and have managed to work out who wrote most of them. The list of diaries and letters is as follows:
    1. ‘Torquay in 1792′ a travel diary of a family holiday to Torquay written by Emma Smith. She, her parents and her sisters Eliza and Augusta went to visit her married sister and her husband (Lord and Lady Compton)
    2.’Devonshire in 1794’ another travel diary written by Emma Smith when she, her parents and her sister Augusta went to visit Lord and Lady Compton again, this time at a house called Fancey, near Plymouth
    3.A journal by Augusta Smith written solely about her youngest daughter, Maria, following her progress year by year from birth up to the age of about seventeen.

    Assorted letters in roughly chronological order, mainly to and from Maria (nee Smith, later Lady Seymour)
    1828 To Maria from her brother, Drummond
    1829 To Maria from her sister, Augusta
    1831 To Maria from her brother, Drummond
    1832 To Maria from Drummond
    1835 To Maria from Catherine Schall
    1854 From Maria to her sister, Fanny
    ?1855 To Maria from her stepson, Michael Culme-Seymour
    ?1856 To Fanny from Maria (on holiday in Eastbourne)
    ?date To Fanny from Maria (at Northchurch)
    1857 To Maria from JWColl (Wildenspost)
    1857 To Maria from her son,Henry Hobart Culme-Seymour (at school in Brighton)
    ?date To her aunt Emma Smith from Maria (on holiday with the family in Glen Nevis)
    1868 To Maria (in Bromsgrove) from her neice, Mary A Austen Leigh
    ?date To Fanny from Maria
    June 1883 To Lady Seymour (Maria) from Eleanor Brooke
    June and July 1883 To Lady Seymour from Mr H Woods
    July 1883 To Lady Seymour from ? at 9 Mackie Place
    Aug 1883 To Lady Seymour from J lewis Davies
    ?date To Elizabeth (about to become Mrs Lucy) from maria Lecheneu, Hounsford Court.

    I have transcribed the first travel diary and plan to type it up. I also have written a summary of the contents of the letters in case you are interested in any of them in particular.

    Jacky Witt (nee Murry, granddaughter of Violet le Maistre: not the one who married Charles but his daughter by his first marriage)

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Jacky — hope you rec’d my email message. Can’t express how *happy* your comment made me!

      k

  22. pat kings said,

    i was interested in hassobury as i went to school has anybody got any photos of pupils who used to go to the school in 1960-62 pat kings

  23. Yolonda said,

    I am really impressed with your writing skills and also with the layout on your blog. Is this a paid theme or did you modify it yourself? Either way keep up the nice quality writing, it’s rare to see a great blog like this one nowadays..

    • Mike Hutchinson said,

      Hi Janeite

      Firstly what a wonderful site, so full of interesting information. I am trying to write a book about Tring Park mansion and the people who resided here. I work at the mansion but would like to point out and emphasis, that I am NOT an intellectual of any kind, merely an enthusiastic amateur who’s research is for his own pleasure. Obviously my line of interest is in the Smith family, particularly Sir Drummond. It’s funny how some of the families who have lived at the mansion are connected in someway or other. Mary Gosling marrying Charles Smith, The Rev. James Edward marrying Emma Smith and residing at the mansion in 1823 as curate of Wiggington and even the Gore’s marrying into the Compton’s as did the Smith’s. Also a tenuous link with Sir Drummond buying Bath House in Richmond which was frequently visited by Joshua Reynolds when owned by the playwright George Colman. And last but not least the Smith’s and Cunliffe’s. Any information you might be able to impart in connection with the mansion or Sir Drummond I would be truly grateful for.

      • Janeite Kelly said,

        Hi, Mike!

        What TERRIFIC news to read – a book on Tring Park mansion!! Put me down for a copy.

        I’ll help where I can, though I have not delved much into the early life of Sir Drummond. I do have two portraits of of Mrs Drummond Smith (which you’ve probably seen). You’re looking for biographical information on Drummond? I may have some sources for you, if you are; as well, a little information about his later years (from Emma).

        You have NO idea how intertwined these families were! The earliest Mary Gosling diary is from 1814; further years are successive trips. One trip (1817) is to Hampshire and the coast. Mary describes visiting TRING! But not ONE mention of the “family” — if you didn’t know the connection with the Goslings, you would never dream she had any connection to the house other than as a “tourist” walking through.

        I’ll email you!

        k

  24. Kerrie K. said,

    I believe you have a nice page here… this was my initial time coming here. I just happened to find it doing a google search. anyway, fantastic post. I’ll be bookmarking this page for sure.

  25. frostwire said,

    I just now wanted to thank you again for your amazing web-site you have produced here. It is full of useful tips for those who are truly interested in this particular subject, particularly this very post. You’re really all absolutely sweet plus thoughtful of others and reading your website posts is a wonderful delight to me. And what generous reward! Mary and I usually have pleasure making use of your suggestions in what we should instead do in the future. Our checklist is a distance long which means your tips are going to be put to very good use.

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Thanks for the “thumbs up” – I truly hope you find items of interest here. Sometimes I just post whatever comes off the top of my head!

  26. toneye said,

    yes i have a deed lease for a year 1820 richard powlett wright banyon and william gosling esqrs to thomas newman

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      How thrilling, Toneye! Does it seem that William signed as Goslings & Sharpe (ie, the banking firm) or himself? Have you an idea of who Thomas Newman was?

      BIG favor: would it be possible to scan William’s signature? I’ve never seen his handwriting — though so many signed documents (ie, not family letters) do exist.

      Great to hear from you! Thanks for posting this comment.

      k

      • toneye said,

        Dear Micc kelly thank you for reply newman was the orignal owner of wheelright shop at wilstone nr tring hertsand had land that lasted from1820 upwards to when rothchild baught in 1895 6 and sold it 1924 i baught the land in 1984 with all orignal deeds i canot scan signature but i can take a photo of it and attach it to an e.mail should i try this?Kind Regards Toneye

      • Janeite Kelly said,

        Hi, Toneye — that would be great! Send it to smithandgosling [at] gmail [dot] com.

        VERY interesting that the place is “near Tring”! I’ve just been emailing a guy at Tring Park School about the house. The owner — (Sir) Drummond Smith (d. 1816) was uncle (father’s brother) to Emma’s mother Augusta Smith. It was Drummond’s baronetcy that Charles Joshua Smith (Emma’s eldest brother) inherited at almost 16-years-old. His widow rented it out — and the Smiths of Suttons: Mamma and her as-yet-unmarried children moved into Tring in the last 1820s. They moved to Mapledurham in fall 1834.

        The Smiths were related to William Gosling in two ways (I’m pretty sure their bankers were another firm – lots of mentions of Currie & Co!): Drummond Smith was married to the sister — Mary Cunliffe — of William’s wife, Margaret Elizabeth Cunliffe. Poor Eliza died when my Mary Gosling was about 4 (Dec 1803); her sister the following February! Come 1826, with Charles and Mary’s marriage (his second, her first), the two families are again “related”.

        William transacted a lot of business over the years for Goslings & Sharpe. But what a wonderful thing to learn of – Newman’s wheelright shop! Surely the Smiths brought business to the man when they lived at Tring!

        How wonderful to have such precious documents! I think I got some one-page “deed” when I bought my house, which just rattles off who owned when and sold to whom when. FASCINATING to have such history come with your place.

        k

  27. toneye said,

    Thank you for reply i will try and send attment to address if it fales e.mail toneyefoy@rocketmail.com and i can send it that way Kind Regards Toneye

  28. Anielka said,

    I can tell you exactly how the Deedes, Bramstons and Mildmays were related to the Austen family if you are interested

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Always happy to hear more, Anielka. Feel free to email me (smithandgosling [at] gmail [dot] com) or post more in the comments area.

      k

  29. Duncan McLaren said,

    k:

    Please send me a separate email and I will explain in details and sent you some reference Davison bookplate images. Duncan

  30. Jim Saunders said,

    Duncan,

    Unfortunately, in all my years of research into Alexander Davison, I have never come across a volume bearing his bookplate. It could be that some or perhaps most of the contents of his libraries may have been removed to Germany, when his granddaughter Rosalie married into her husbands German family. As did the sensational and recently auctioned items of Nelson artifacts. During the 1930’s? a British MP visiting the German family, mentioned in a pictorial on his return, that he had seen many English books in the families library about the lives of both Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton, as well as some of the ‘lost’ Nelson artifacts. I understand that the items left England at the behest of Alexander Davison’s son, Sir William Davison. I know where the library is housed but, I’m afraid the address must remain confidential to protect the families privacy.

    Sorry I could not be of more help to you on this matter.

    Regards,

    Jim Saunders.

  31. toneye said,

    was there a gosling famley at tring hertfordshire in the 18 00s?

  32. Dave Madeley said,

    I am a collector of old letters and postmarks

    I recently acquired a letter that was posted on 27 January 1797 from Devizes.It was posted with “free” postmark ( hence my interest) and signed “Northampton” . The postmark is similar to one on the letter contained in this blog.

    It is addessed to Mrs W. Gosling, Grafton Street, London.
    The letter is in French and three pages long.
    At the end of the letter there is a statement to the effect that the letter was started on the 24th and finished on the 25th.
    It appears to be signed “Auguste” or “Augusta” from Stoke Park .

    Could this be from Augusta Smith?
    Was she at Stoke Park in January 1797?
    Were the Goslings living at Grafton Street in 1797?

    I am willing to scan the letter and contents and share this via e-mail, if this is any interest.

    Dave Madeley, Ottawa, Canada

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Dave — I’ve emailed you; can’t wait to see the contents! Thanks so much for offering to scan, and thanks also for contacting me.

      Kelly

  33. mrs p kings said,

    i wrote some time about hassobury as i was a pupil there in 1960 to 62, but as yet have no photos of myself or my sisters who also went to the school pat kings nee redman

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Pat; nice to hear from you again. I’m not sure – Are you looking for photos taken at the school c1960s? Maybe readers can help, if that is the case.

      k

      • mrs p kings said,

        yes i have no school photos of myself while i was at the sc hool or the teachers either thanks pat kings redman

  34. Elizabeth Mills said,

    My great great grandmother Mary Page (later Mrs Pratt) was nurse to Richard and Fanny Seymour’s children at Kinwarton in the mid-late 1830 and early 1840s. Mary’s youngest daughter, Maria Page 1837-1905 was my Great Grandmother, and married opera singer Henry Whitworth Jones. Their four children all had Seymour godparents, so clearly Maria was very close to the Seymour family too. Mary Page died in Cheshire, but her body was transported to Kinwarton and buried at the foot of Fanny Seymour’s grave, alongside her older daughter, Eliza Jane 1830-1850. I found the graves by complete accident on a visit to Kinwarton some years ago, and in the family we have a rather lovely watercolour of the Rectory painted for Maria by one of the Seymour daughters.

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Dear Elizabeth — how wonderful to hear from you. I never realized that Mary Page was buried near Fanny Seymour! When I visited Kinwarton (briefly, when giving a lecture on Fanny in 2007), my host Alan drove me around but photographed for me later the grave of Fanny. I may have more information for you and will contact you via email.

      Please do mention which Seymour daughter painted your watercolor of the Rectory…

      Kelly

  35. mrs p kings said,

    i enjoyed my time at hassoberry with my younger sister vicky manning she is reseaching the gosling family i think, we used to go on nature walks with one teacher while she read lord of thje rings or the hobbit, cookery was good as we invited a teacher to havbe dinner with us which we cooked. it was a lovely old house pat kings

  36. http://criticalliteracy.org.uk said,

    Have you ever thought about writing an e-book or guest authoring on other sites?
    I have a blog centered on the same topics you discuss and would
    love to have you share some stories/information. I know my subscribers
    would enjoy your work. If you’re even remotely interested, feel free to
    send me an email.

  37. mrs p kings said,

    I have photos of the school and Farnham church pat kings

  38. Andrew J Daniels said,

    I was tending a relative’s grave in Hastings Cemetery today when I came across the grave of Langham Charles Christie 1858 – 1879. I am happy to send you a picture of the stone if you wish.

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Andrew – a Christie grandson (a son of William Langham Christie); I’ve not gone much past the “child generation”. Ah, how sad – given his age. Would love a photo – smithandgosling [at] gmail [dot com] – and thank you for contacting me! k

  39. Philip Stevens said,

    Anna Maria Le Marchant is mentioned in 4M52/169b at the Hampshire Record office as being unable to leave school in the summer of 1821 as her aunt thought her too young to be introduced. I assume this is the Anna Maria, born c. 1805, and daughter John Gaspard Le Marchant. The writer of the 1821 letter is Jane Dumaresq of Pelham Place which is near Chawton House; and the Dumaresqs knew Jane Austen slightly. Philip Stevens

    • Janeite Kelly said,

      Hi, Philip – thanks so much for the information on Anna Maria Le Marchant. I haven’t done a lot to investigate the family of Denis Le Marchant, so it’s wonderful to hear that slices of their history (and especially one of his sisters!) exists at HRO. Are these letters anything that you are researching? The Dumaresq family seem to have an extensive number of items at HRO, and if there’s a Jane Austen connection, I’m sure others would love to know more about what you’ve uncovered.

      k

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